Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Feb 20, 2015 22:05:28 GMT
I vote Irishrover for Prime Minister following his last two posts
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aghast
David Williams
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 395
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Post by aghast on Feb 20, 2015 22:19:36 GMT
I vote Irishrover for Prime Minister following his last two posts Are you saying he's a hypocritical, power-hungry, lying weasel who wants to be adored but doesn't care who he shafts in the process?
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Bridgeman
Alfie Biggs
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,549
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Post by Bridgeman on Feb 20, 2015 23:00:25 GMT
I vote Irishrover for Prime Minister following his last two posts Are you saying he's a hypocritical, power-hungry, lying weasel who wants to be adored but doesn't care who he shafts in the process? I so want to respond with a witty reposte but just can't think of one right at this moment
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Post by lympstonegas on Feb 21, 2015 9:48:54 GMT
Doechanged ke long for the happy clappers to play the 'you aren't a proper supporter' or 'if you don't like it, bog off to Ashton' card, does it. Anyone who thinks that the problems that have taken us out of the League have been addressed is kidding themselves. Nothing has changed, the Luck & Chemistry express has the boilers stoked and is flying along nicely. But it won't be long before there are some leaves on the track and it all goes belly up. Then the battle cry of 'we have to get behind the lads more than ever' will be dusted off, again. Whilst Irish's satire is extremely funny, I have to agree with Bamber. The disorganisation and lack of leadership is still there. What evidence is there that any thing has been learned, that behaviour has changed? Why should we be optimistic about the future? If you truly believe this then please along with Bamber clearly and factually list the truth you base your constant claims of the disorganisation and lack of leadership and any other negative issue currently at the club. Slapping down happy clappers Rosetinters and any positivity is all well and good but let's hear your truth now once and for all so this can be discussed. I await your response. Please remember I have asked you for true facts that you constantly base your arguments on.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 10:04:43 GMT
Whilst Irish's satire is extremely funny, I have to agree with Bamber. The disorganisation and lack of leadership is still there. What evidence is there that any thing has been learned, that behaviour has changed? Why should we be optimistic about the future? If you truly believe this then please along with Bamber clearly and factually list the truth you base your constant claims of the disorganisation and lack of leadership and any other negative issue currently at the club. Slapping down happy clappers Rosetinters and any positivity is all well and good but let's hear your truth now once and for all so this can be discussed. I await your response. Please remember I have asked you for true facts that you constantly base your arguments on.A Sure Rather than do a list, lets start with one. You own a business. It has a loyal customer base that despite poor customer service buys from you to a degree far higher than your peers (2013/14) You operate in a market which attracts media, sponsorship and positive cash (trickle down) You operate in a demographic that is one of the most economically vibrant, in a top ten world economy as judged by gdp per capita. And You cannot break even as a minimum You cannot manage to improve your customer facilities You continuously delIver a product to a standard significantly below that of your peers You cannot (or will not) attract talent to the Bod to aid and abet improvement You cannot organise a communications strategy to keep your loyal customers informed, on board and one that prevents your business attracting ridicule So issue one Does the leadership have the ability to run a business in the market the business is in Go on
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Post by lympstonegas on Feb 21, 2015 10:10:20 GMT
If you truly believe this then please along with Bamber clearly and factually list the truth you base your constant claims of the disorganisation and lack of leadership and any other negative issue currently at the club. Slapping down happy clappers Rosetinters and any positivity is all well and good but let's hear your truth now once and for all so this can be discussed. I await your response. Please remember I have asked you for true facts that you constantly base your arguments on.A Sure Rather than do a list, lets start with one. You own a business. It has a loyal customer base that despite poor customer service buys from you to a degree far higher than your peers (2013/14) You operate in a market which attracts media, sponsorship and positive cash (trickle down) You operate in a demographic that is one of the most economically vibrant, in a top ten world economy as judged by gdp per capita. And You cannot break even as a minimum You cannot manage to improve your customer facilities You continuously delIver a product to a standard significantly below that of your peers You cannot (or will not) attract talent to the Bod to aid and abet improvement You cannot organise a communications strategy to keep your loyal customers informed, on board and one that prevents your business attracting ridicule So issue one Does the leadership have the ability to run a business in the market the business is in Go on Sorry - Moved the goalposts already and Not answered the question
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 10:27:15 GMT
And once again you are wrong. You are picking up on a previous discussion where you were saying that watching an animal like Shawcross fouling and injuring opponants is wonderful and what makes it a mans' game. A goal which squirms half an inch over the line on a muddy Port Vale pitch off of Ali Gibbs' ample derrière counts as 1 goal, just like Bergkamp Vs Argentina or Gascoigne Vs Scotland, I enjoyed them all, but didn't dance around the living room or kiss her indoors whilst in a state of mock delerium when any of them were scored. Really? To be honest I think that's a tiny bit sad. I think it's missing out on something that being a football fan gives you that nothing else can. I remember exactly where I was when Gazza scored against Scotland; I jumped around the living room and sat there with the mate I was watching it with in a daze for about 10 minutes not quite believing what we'd seen. I can remember I was drinking Tab because I was a cool kid! When Bergkamp scored against Argentina I was watching it in my Great Aunt's bedroom while there was a family dinner in her kitchen and my grandparents came in and told me to sit down because I was jumping around so much I was causing the trifle to wobble alarmingly. That's not 'mock delirium' that's genuine joyful reaction otherwise there's just no way I'd be able to remember that much detail so many years later. If you want something a bit more adult, when Andy Williams scored the winner against Southampton I walked back to the car with the mate I drove with and we literally couldn't talk for about 20 minutes afterwards. I didn't feel safe to start the car - honestly. When Machorionne scored the winner to take Borough to the UEFA Cup final I broke a chair by jumping out of it so quickly and then hit my head on the ceiling. I remember every detail of the trip back to the train station from Fleetwood 2 years ago after our completely unexpected away win there in a state of euphoria. There's nothing false about those reactions - I'm sure many would argue they were misplaced (though I wouldn't recognise them as having any right whatsoever to do that - we care about what we care about) but they were entirely genuine. It happened in the last game I went to - when we equalised from the penalty spot against Torquay. Dreadful game, dreadful performance and we didn't deserve a point really; and of course it's a disgrace that Torquay at home in the Conference on Boxing in any way equals a big game etc etc. But I bloody well enjoyed the moment when that penalty went in and I left feeling emotionally drained that we couldn't grab a winner. It goes the other way too of course. But to me (and I honestly think most people) that's what being a football fan primarily means - an emotional investment. I put my emotions through the ringer when I watch a game and react accordingly. Now that might be silly (nothing wrong with that), lacking in perspective etc but it's definitely not false; the delirium is real. If football doesn't really give you that or gives you a diluted version of it (that kind of self-transcendence, that collective spirit, that emotional rollercoaster etc) then I'm kind of intrigued as to what it is you get out of being a football fan. It's partly a follow up to a previous argument (not sure what's wrong with that) but more an observation of other comments you've made. You can appreciate the game on whatever level you like and I hope you get a lot out of it - that doesn't matter a jot. You are also absolutely right and entitled to be as critical at the current state of Rovers as you like on which I pretty much agree with you - and if that devalues the experience of being a Rovers fan than that's a shame on the people who are responsible for the club falling this low. Where it winds me up is if you think you have the right to devalue other people's emotional investment in it. It's about fun! In no particular order. The reason that supporters saying how wonderful the world is because we have scraped a 1-0 away to a team who lose a third of their home games is a problem is that the result doesn't deal with any of the underlying issues. If we get promoted this season do you seriously think that everything will be OK at Rovers? By all means enjoy the moment, but the hysteria witnessed on here gives licence to the directors to continue doing the same things, and they will get found out again unless basics change with how the club is run. And I only mentioned it at all because this thread was started goading a response from the people who try to maintain perspective about where we are as a club and where we are heading. Up to that point I was more than happy to leave people alone to enjoy the moment. Can you remind me what the result of the 'top to bottom' review was? I'm not sure that Barry could even agree with his little committee on designs for a couple of T-shirts. But several good people did lose their jobs, oddly enough though, not one of the people who sit at the big table. And that seems to be the problem, you have to wonder if the directors are in total denial or if they are aware that they are actually responsible for what's happened to our club? Going back to this embarrasing social behavoir, it's a learned response, spend 5 mins on YouTube and see how players and supporters reacted to goals being scored 50 years ago. I agree, watching the game can be draining, I was totally wiped out after Platt's last minute goal against Belgium, but I didn't start dancing around the living room like a possessed witch doctor. Lympstonegas. The eveidence is laid bare for the entire world to see. Record wage bill, record losses, more managers than we can remember, more players that we can remember, massive profit made the year that Higgs took over, and now we are in a League with part time clubs. As for solutions, invest 5 mins looking around the internet for a copy of the Rovers Agenda For Change document, have a read and let us know what you think and how those proposals (made almost a full decade ago now) relate to our present position.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 11:38:14 GMT
Sure Rather than do a list, lets start with one. You own a business. It has a loyal customer base that despite poor customer service buys from you to a degree far higher than your peers (2013/14) You operate in a market which attracts media, sponsorship and positive cash (trickle down) You operate in a demographic that is one of the most economically vibrant, in a top ten world economy as judged by gdp per capita. And You cannot break even as a minimum You cannot manage to improve your customer facilities You continuously delIver a product to a standard significantly below that of your peers You cannot (or will not) attract talent to the Bod to aid and abet improvement You cannot organise a communications strategy to keep your loyal customers informed, on board and one that prevents your business attracting ridicule So issue one Does the leadership have the ability to run a business in the market the business is in Go on Sorry - Moved the goalposts already and Not answered the question Apologies if you wanted a debate on a specific operational issue But would you agree that the position I have laid out is symptomatic of the aggregate of the operational issues you might want to debate, individually?
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Peter Parker
Global Moderator
Richard Walker
You have been sentenced to DELETION!
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,920
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Post by Peter Parker on Feb 21, 2015 12:05:38 GMT
Bamber and Les, you know i will agree on a lot of things wrong at the club, have we not all been saying the same for ten years or whatever.
Regardless of the bigger failings and why we are in the conference, what is wrong with people being happy thei team has won?
We arr doing well in the divison we are in, which is all Clarke and the players can do and we have a chance to go back up.
On a purely football level again regardless of how and why we are here, we have to be happy we have a good shout of going back up.
The UWE case looms large as a potential grey cloud, but in spite of that the team can only keep peforming. When the UWE case is settled there will have to be a reevaluation of the situation of the pitch and how we move forward in the bigger picture.
Lets celebrate another 3 points today and continuing to correct one aspect of the wrongs
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 13:15:41 GMT
Bamber and Les, you know i will agree on a lot of things wrong at the club, have we not all been saying the same for ten years or whatever. Regardless of the bigger failings and why we are in the conference, what is wrong with people being happy thei team has won? We arr doing well in the divison we are in, which is all Clarke and the players can do and we have a chance to go back up. On a purely football level again regardless of how and why we are here, we have to be happy we have a good shout of going back up. The UWE case looms large as a potential grey cloud, but in spite of that the team can only keep peforming. When the UWE case is settled there will have to be a reevaluation of the situation of the pitch and how we move forward in the bigger picture. Lets celebrate another 3 points today and continuing to correct one aspect of the wrongs Simon Absolutely As I said on the day, lets all enjoy the match and hopefully celebrate the win. I will certainly be doing that next Tuesday, my next game. But when I wake the next day, after we have drubbed Braintree 4-0, the reality will be the same. Not that we are in the confrrence per se, but the reasons why we ended up there. Those factors are still very much in play. Which, I think, is the point Bamber is making and if somis manifestly the case.
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Post by lympstonegas on Feb 21, 2015 13:26:39 GMT
Bamber and Les, you know i will agree on a lot of things wrong at the club, have we not all been saying the same for ten years or whatever. Regardless of the bigger failings and why we are in the conference, what is wrong with people being happy thei team has won? We arr doing well in the divison we are in, which is all Clarke and the players can do and we have a chance to go back up. On a purely football level again regardless of how and why we are here, we have to be happy we have a good shout of going back up. The UWE case looms large as a potential grey cloud, but in spite of that the team can only keep peforming. When the UWE case is settled there will have to be a reevaluation of the situation of the pitch and how we move forward in the bigger picture. Lets celebrate another 3 points today and continuing to correct one aspect of the wrongs [br Totally agree and this is how I see things now. Sorry Oldie and Gasgroin I'm still waiting for you factual evidence to back your statements. I'm well aware of the old agenda and lived through most of the bad times as supported Rovers alongside Kevin Spencer since 1967. It makes me sad that some will hold in so tightly to the past mistakes and not embrace the small green shoots of change and some positivity at long last. Astrafjevs and Man in The boat responses to congratulating Higgs if he wins in court in the Sainsbury and the media thread feels to me that unbelievably some want the club to fail. I cannot deduce any other belief by their replies.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 14:04:00 GMT
I just want justice to be done with Sainsburys and for Higgs to f*** off, he's a disgrace.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 14:31:32 GMT
Bamber and Les, you know i will agree on a lot of things wrong at the club, have we not all been saying the same for ten years or whatever. Regardless of the bigger failings and why we are in the conference, what is wrong with people being happy thei team has won? We arr doing well in the divison we are in, which is all Clarke and the players can do and we have a chance to go back up. On a purely football level again regardless of how and why we are here, we have to be happy we have a good shout of going back up. The UWE case looms large as a potential grey cloud, but in spite of that the team can only keep peforming. When the UWE case is settled there will have to be a reevaluation of the situation of the pitch and how we move forward in the bigger picture. Lets celebrate another 3 points today and continuing to correct one aspect of the wrongs [br Totally agree and this is how I see things now. Sorry Oldie and Gasgroin I'm still waiting for you factual evidence to back your statements. I'm well aware of the old agenda and lived through most of the bad times as supported Rovers alongside Kevin Spencer since 1967. It makes me sad that some will hold in so tightly to the past mistakes and not embrace the small green shoots of change and some positivity at long last. Astrafjevs and Man in The boat responses to congratulating Higgs if he wins in court in the Sainsbury and the media thread feels to me that unbelievably some want the club to fail. I cannot deduce any other belief by their replies. What is it exactly that you want evidence of? The reason for reference to past mistakes is that I'm not sure that anything about the club structure has changed sufficiently to give confidence that all of the mistakes that have lost many millions of pounds and resulted in us dropping out of the football League won't be repeated. PP. Please see above, no issue with people enjoying the success, allbeit at a very modest level, I only got involved in this thread as it was a direct challenge asking where the realists were after last week's narrow victory against an established Conference club who lose 1/3rd of their home games.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 15:19:45 GMT
[br Totally agree and this is how I see things now. Sorry Oldie and Gasgroin I'm still waiting for you factual evidence to back your statements. I'm well aware of the old agenda and lived through most of the bad times as supported Rovers alongside Kevin Spencer since 1967. It makes me sad that some will hold in so tightly to the past mistakes and not embrace the small green shoots of change and some positivity at long last. Astrafjevs and Man in The boat responses to congratulating Higgs if he wins in court in the Sainsbury and the media thread feels to me that unbelievably some want the club to fail. I cannot deduce any other belief by their replies. What is it exactly that you want evidence of? The reason for reference to past mistakes is that I'm not sure that anything about the club structure has changed sufficiently to give confidence that all of the mistakes that have lost many millions of pounds and resulted in us dropping out of the football League won't be repeated. PP. Please see above, no issue with people enjoying the success, allbeit at a very modest level, I only got involved in this thread as it was a direct challenge asking where the realists were after last week's narrow victory against an established Conference club who lose 1/3rd of their home games.
You do have issues with people enjoying the success of this season so far. You do after every win against a team in this division because we are in the Conference. The same as you have issues with Darrell Clarke because of the charade of last season and the previous 10 or so. It doesn't matter whether the Rovers are winning in the conference or division two,they can only beat the teams in the same division. And celebrate a win most happily do. But to keep on tainting every Rovers win with the failings of the board is very tiresome. And not the views of a realist, IMO. See highlighted paragraph above!!
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 17:35:03 GMT
What is it exactly that you want evidence of? The reason for reference to past mistakes is that I'm not sure that anything about the club structure has changed sufficiently to give confidence that all of the mistakes that have lost many millions of pounds and resulted in us dropping out of the football League won't be repeated. PP. Please see above, no issue with people enjoying the success, allbeit at a very modest level, I only got involved in this thread as it was a direct challenge asking where the realists were after last week's narrow victory against an established Conference club who lose 1/3rd of their home games.
You do have issues with people enjoying the success of this season so far. You do after every win against a team in this division because we are in the Conference. The same as you have issues with Darrell Clarke because of the charade of last season and the previous 10 or so. It doesn't matter whether the Rovers are winning in the conference or division two,they can only beat the teams in the same division. And celebrate a win most happily do. But to keep on tainting every Rovers win with the failings of the board is very tiresome. And not the views of a realist, IMO. See highlighted paragraph above!! I didn't start this thread so no mileage in trying to turn it on me, it was started by someone who thinks that all of our problems have gone away because we scrape a narrow win against teams like Altrincham, who turn up and field 3 players with big fat beer bellies. Here's the problem and the thing that we should all be concerned about. Higgs thought that everything in the garden was rosy, he inherited a club on the up with a massive cash surplus. People that I would class as realists questioned the structure and management within the club, people like you didn't care, what could possibly go wrong, we were OK? Well, here we are, poor management and a lack of planning and all of the money is gone, and many millions more and we are in a division playing part time teams. What makes you think for one second that history won't repeat itself, what's changed about the way that the club is run?
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irishrover
Global Moderator
Joined: June 2014
Posts: 3,372
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Post by irishrover on Feb 21, 2015 18:19:06 GMT
Really? To be honest I think that's a tiny bit sad. I think it's missing out on something that being a football fan gives you that nothing else can. I remember exactly where I was when Gazza scored against Scotland; I jumped around the living room and sat there with the mate I was watching it with in a daze for about 10 minutes not quite believing what we'd seen. I can remember I was drinking Tab because I was a cool kid! When Bergkamp scored against Argentina I was watching it in my Great Aunt's bedroom while there was a family dinner in her kitchen and my grandparents came in and told me to sit down because I was jumping around so much I was causing the trifle to wobble alarmingly. That's not 'mock delirium' that's genuine joyful reaction otherwise there's just no way I'd be able to remember that much detail so many years later. If you want something a bit more adult, when Andy Williams scored the winner against Southampton I walked back to the car with the mate I drove with and we literally couldn't talk for about 20 minutes afterwards. I didn't feel safe to start the car - honestly. When Machorionne scored the winner to take Borough to the UEFA Cup final I broke a chair by jumping out of it so quickly and then hit my head on the ceiling. I remember every detail of the trip back to the train station from Fleetwood 2 years ago after our completely unexpected away win there in a state of euphoria. There's nothing false about those reactions - I'm sure many would argue they were misplaced (though I wouldn't recognise them as having any right whatsoever to do that - we care about what we care about) but they were entirely genuine. It happened in the last game I went to - when we equalised from the penalty spot against Torquay. Dreadful game, dreadful performance and we didn't deserve a point really; and of course it's a disgrace that Torquay at home in the Conference on Boxing in any way equals a big game etc etc. But I bloody well enjoyed the moment when that penalty went in and I left feeling emotionally drained that we couldn't grab a winner. It goes the other way too of course. But to me (and I honestly think most people) that's what being a football fan primarily means - an emotional investment. I put my emotions through the ringer when I watch a game and react accordingly. Now that might be silly (nothing wrong with that), lacking in perspective etc but it's definitely not false; the delirium is real. If football doesn't really give you that or gives you a diluted version of it (that kind of self-transcendence, that collective spirit, that emotional rollercoaster etc) then I'm kind of intrigued as to what it is you get out of being a football fan. It's partly a follow up to a previous argument (not sure what's wrong with that) but more an observation of other comments you've made. You can appreciate the game on whatever level you like and I hope you get a lot out of it - that doesn't matter a jot. You are also absolutely right and entitled to be as critical at the current state of Rovers as you like on which I pretty much agree with you - and if that devalues the experience of being a Rovers fan than that's a shame on the people who are responsible for the club falling this low. Where it winds me up is if you think you have the right to devalue other people's emotional investment in it. It's about fun! In no particular order. The reason that supporters saying how wonderful the world is because we have scraped a 1-0 away to a team who lose a third of their home games is a problem is that the result doesn't deal with any of the underlying issues. If we get promoted this season do you seriously think that everything will be OK at Rovers? By all means enjoy the moment, but the hysteria witnessed on here gives licence to the directors to continue doing the same things, and they will get found out again unless basics change with how the club is run. And I only mentioned it at all because this thread was started goading a response from the people who try to maintain perspective about where we are as a club and where we are heading. Up to that point I was more than happy to leave people alone to enjoy the moment. Can you remind me what the result of the 'top to bottom' review was? I'm not sure that Barry could even agree with his little committee on designs for a couple of T-shirts. But several good people did lose their jobs, oddly enough though, not one of the people who sit at the big table. And that seems to be the problem, you have to wonder if the directors are in total denial or if they are aware that they are actually responsible for what's happened to our club? Going back to this embarrasing social behavoir, it's a learned response, spend 5 mins on YouTube and see how players and supporters reacted to goals being scored 50 years ago. I agree, watching the game can be draining, I was totally wiped out after Platt's last minute goal against Belgium, but I didn't start dancing around the living room like a possessed witch doctor. Lympstonegas. The eveidence is laid bare for the entire world to see. Record wage bill, record losses, more managers than we can remember, more players that we can remember, massive profit made the year that Higgs took over, and now we are in a League with part time clubs. As for solutions, invest 5 mins looking around the internet for a copy of the Rovers Agenda For Change document, have a read and let us know what you think and how those proposals (made almost a full decade ago now) relate to our present position. I don't disagree - but I don't see how that justifies putting people down for saying they had a good time and celebrated accordingly. I read Always match report on the Grimsby match thread and was really pleased - I'm happy that supporting Rovers can still do that to people. That gives you hope that underneath it all there's still a beating heart of people who give a crap. Criticism is all well and good but you can't win support for an argument by pure negativity against the thing that you ultimately want people to care about; it's self defeating. What I object to is this odd binary narrative. I agree with PP. There's no inconsistency with enjoying being a Rovers fan and celebrating the fact the club is having a good season while at the same time saying that there are many things that are very wrong and need to change or we are unlikely to be successful in the future. That's not burying your head in the sand or obscuring the problem - it's simply recognising that there's still something worth investing in despite the issues. I think it creates this false situation where either you are entirely against the club and are almost begrudging of any short term success it has because it diminishes the possibility of it changing it for the better (which I don't think is true but definitely comes across that way at times) or you are in cloud cuckoo land where everything is perfect because we happen to be 2nd in the Conference. That doesn't do your argument any favours because 1)it becomes 'this is the fans fault for being a bunch of apathetic so and so's' which even if it was correct is a non-starter as a way of convincing anyone of anything and 2)it totally misdiagnoses the reality. There's not really 2 sets of people out there - there are a few at those extremes but I most Rovers fans I speak to are very pissed off and recognise the lack of accountability at the top and how far the club has fallen and how badly run it has been, the inertia etc but equally those that haven't decided to jack it all in are also going to damn well enjoy everything they can about being a Rovers fan because otherwise what is the point. So taking that 'you're all a bunch of ostriches' line to anyone who expresses that they're actually enjoying this season is just self defeating. Also all behavior is learned. All you're showing there is that social norms have changed in 50 years and I think that's because in many cases people have recognised that there's a great personal release in being silly and in many cases dignity is a massively overrated concept. You know there was a study done of palliative nurses that asked them what people's kind of last regrets were when they were talking to them and very high up on that list was that they wished they'd had more fun and silliness in their life. Providing it isn't intimidating people and it doesn't hurt anyone what on earth is wrong with 'embarrassing social behavior' as you call it; I'd just call it people having fun and being silly and I can't see is wrong with people enjoying themselves. They certainly don't deserve to be looked down upon. I don't personally see why dancing around the living room like a possessed witch doctor is a bad thing in any way - sounds like a lot of fun to me.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 18:21:57 GMT
Bamber and Les, you know i will agree on a lot of things wrong at the club, have we not all been saying the same for ten years or whatever. Regardless of the bigger failings and why we are in the conference, what is wrong with people being happy thei team has won? We arr doing well in the divison we are in, which is all Clarke and the players can do and we have a chance to go back up. On a purely football level again regardless of how and why we are here, we have to be happy we have a good shout of going back up. The UWE case looms large as a potential grey cloud, but in spite of that the team can only keep peforming. When the UWE case is settled there will have to be a reevaluation of the situation of the pitch and how we move forward in the bigger picture. Lets celebrate another 3 points today and continuing to correct one aspect of the wrongs [br Totally agree and this is how I see things now. Sorry Oldie and Gasgroin I'm still waiting for you factual evidence to back your statements. I'm well aware of the old agenda and lived through most of the bad times as supported Rovers alongside Kevin Spencer since 1967. It makes me sad that some will hold in so tightly to the past mistakes and not embrace the small green shoots of change and some positivity at long last. Astrafjevs and Man in The boat responses to congratulating Higgs if he wins in court in the Sainsbury and the media thread feels to me that unbelievably some want the club to fail. I cannot deduce any other belief by their replies. Your deductions are awry.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 18:49:54 GMT
In no particular order. The reason that supporters saying how wonderful the world is because we have scraped a 1-0 away to a team who lose a third of their home games is a problem is that the result doesn't deal with any of the underlying issues. If we get promoted this season do you seriously think that everything will be OK at Rovers? By all means enjoy the moment, but the hysteria witnessed on here gives licence to the directors to continue doing the same things, and they will get found out again unless basics change with how the club is run. And I only mentioned it at all because this thread was started goading a response from the people who try to maintain perspective about where we are as a club and where we are heading. Up to that point I was more than happy to leave people alone to enjoy the moment. Can you remind me what the result of the 'top to bottom' review was? I'm not sure that Barry could even agree with his little committee on designs for a couple of T-shirts. But several good people did lose their jobs, oddly enough though, not one of the people who sit at the big table. And that seems to be the problem, you have to wonder if the directors are in total denial or if they are aware that they are actually responsible for what's happened to our club? Going back to this embarrasing social behavoir, it's a learned response, spend 5 mins on YouTube and see how players and supporters reacted to goals being scored 50 years ago. I agree, watching the game can be draining, I was totally wiped out after Platt's last minute goal against Belgium, but I didn't start dancing around the living room like a possessed witch doctor. Lympstonegas. The eveidence is laid bare for the entire world to see. Record wage bill, record losses, more managers than we can remember, more players that we can remember, massive profit made the year that Higgs took over, and now we are in a League with part time clubs. As for solutions, invest 5 mins looking around the internet for a copy of the Rovers Agenda For Change document, have a read and let us know what you think and how those proposals (made almost a full decade ago now) relate to our present position. I don't disagree - but I don't see how that justifies putting people down for saying they had a good time and celebrated accordingly. I read Always match report on the Grimsby match thread and was really pleased - I'm happy that supporting Rovers can still do that to people. That gives you hope that underneath it all there's still a beating heart of people who give a crap. Criticism is all well and good but you can't win support for an argument by pure negativity against the thing that you ultimately want people to care about; it's self defeating. What I object to is this odd binary narrative. I agree with PP. There's no inconsistency with enjoying being a Rovers fan and celebrating the fact the club is having a good season while at the same time saying that there are many things that are very wrong and need to change or we are unlikely to be successful in the future. That's not burying your head in the sand or obscuring the problem - it's simply recognising that there's still something worth investing in despite the issues. I think it creates this false situation where either you are entirely against the club and are almost begrudging of any short term success it has because it diminishes the possibility of it changing it for the better (which I don't think is true but definitely comes across that way at times) or you are in cloud cuckoo land where everything is perfect because we happen to be 2nd in the Conference. That doesn't do your argument any favours because 1)it becomes 'this is the fans fault for being a bunch of apathetic so and so's' which even if it was correct is a non-starter as a way of convincing anyone of anything and 2)it totally misdiagnoses the reality. There's not really 2 sets of people out there - there are a few at those extremes but I most Rovers fans I speak to are very pissed off and recognise the lack of accountability at the top and how far the club has fallen and how badly run it has been, the inertia etc but equally those that haven't decided to jack it all in are also going to damn well enjoy everything they can about being a Rovers fan because otherwise what is the point. So taking that 'you're all a bunch of ostriches' line to anyone who expresses that they're actually enjoying this season is just self defeating. Also all behavior is learned. All you're showing there is that social norms have changed in 50 years and I think that's because in many cases people have recognised that there's a great personal release in being silly and in many cases dignity is a massively overrated concept. You know there was a study done of palliative nurses that asked them what people's kind of last regrets were when they were talking to them and very high up on that list was that they wished they'd had more fun and silliness in their life. Providing it isn't intimidating people and it doesn't hurt anyone what on earth is wrong with 'embarrassing social behavior' as you call it; I'd just call it people having fun and being silly and I can't see is wrong with people enjoying themselves. They certainly don't deserve to be looked down upon. I don't personally see why dancing around the living room like a possessed witch doctor is a bad thing in any way - sounds like a lot of fun to me. Where to start with that. Over reaction and mock hysteria. The problem is that it's not spontanious, it's fabricated and almost required, at that point it becomes a bit silly. You are talking yourself around in circles, of course come away from today's match very pleased with yet another 3 points and only 1 point off of Barnet, also worth noting that the goal difference is down to only 5 in Barnet's favour, a few weeks ago it was so big that it was worth a point in itself. But anyone who rounds on people for questioning what the plan for sustainability is, is, I'm afraid, in total denial of the events that took us down from L1 with a whimper and left us unable to compete with Accrington Stanley on our way out of the League.
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dido
Predictions League
Peter Aitken
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,883
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Post by dido on Feb 21, 2015 20:02:58 GMT
"Only 5 in Barnet's favour"?
The real Bamber would be ashamed of you, BG.
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Post by swissgas on Feb 21, 2015 20:17:05 GMT
I agree with everyone who suggests we should savour the moment and enjoy the team's current success but are we using this as an excuse to retreat into our comfort zone and hide from reality ?
We talk about following the Swansea City model but has anyone read the history of how their club was reborn ?
It seems to me we are getting further and further away from following their example and more and more satisfied within our own world of happy go lucky away days and of packing inside the Mem on a Saturday to see Rovers beat the cannon fodder which is put before us.
As we've found out so often in the past there really is no appetite for change at Rovers and so perhaps we should completely forget about Swansea City, forget even about Brentford or Bournemouth, and look towards Walsall, Crewe or Rochdale as the model to follow ?
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